Resource Center

Show Notes

• PAIGE: I'm Paige Duggins-Clay, IDRA’s chief legal analyst, this episode features two UNT students and a faculty member about how a recent legal challenge against undocumented students affected them and their campus environment.

  At the time of this recording, the case was pending before the US Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, I’m happy to report that the court has since sided with the university by reversing the district court's order and this antiimmigrant tuition challenge. I'm honored to share this conversation with you today with three amazing people as they talk about their real experiences on the ground, and what they did to counter the harmful impact of this antiimmigrant action and the negative campus climate. I am sure you will be as inspired as I am.

  I'm very excited to be continuing our series of episodes on education and the law. We work to uplift the stories behind landmark cases and losses impacting education and civil rights.

  We've got a great and important story for you today. I'm so excited to introduce you to our special guest but let me give you a little bit of background.

  On April 8th, 2022, a federal judge in the eastern district of Texas ruled that federal immigration law preempts Texas's and state tuition statute - The Texas Dream Act - and bars Texas colleges from charging out-of-state tuition to out-of-state citizens. In that case, Young Conservatives of Texas versus the University of North Texas, the district court sided with the plaintiffs, represented by the Texas Public Policy Foundation, and found that all U.S. citizens, regardless of their connections to Texas, must be eligible for Texas in-state tuition rate at UNT.

  That case was heard an appeal was taken by the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals earlier this year in February 2023, and we're awaiting the decision at the time that this podcast is being recorded, but that doesn't mean that this case is not already having an important impact.

  Now, there have been lots of stories written about the financial impact on UNT to the potential threat to the integrity of our states, the higher education finance system, and all the other things that come from that, including funding student services and programs and the negative impact is having on campus climate.

  And is this last piece that we want to focus on today because while understanding this relatively complicated legal challenge, we don't want to lose sight of the real people who are impacted by these decisions, and we want to keep our eye on the ball in terms of understanding the real intent and motivation behind this harmful litigation. That said, I'm so excited to bring in our very special guests for today's podcast.

  I've got three amazing folks connected to UNT, who have some very close lived experience with the campus, with the student organization that filed this harmful litigation, and were involved in the creation and sustaining of an amazing student organization that has worked to counter the harmful impacts of this anti-immigrant action.

  Today, I'm joined by three very special guests. Mariela Nuñez-Janes or “Profe” as she is beloved and goes by on campus, one of our faculty members at UNT and advisor of the MUEVE student organization.

  Edith Campa, a UNT alum and one of the former presidents of MUEVE, a recent UNT grad, and Daniel Diaz-Alcaraz, a UNT graduate who was involved in the founding of MUEVE and has important insight to share about why this important student organization was founded and some of the history that underlies this litigation that the Young Conservatives of Texas filed against UNT. Welcome, Profe, Daniel, and Edith.

  DR. NUNEZ, DANIEL: Thank you. Hello.

  PAIGE: We're so glad to have you on the podcast today, and before we dive into the substance of our conversation, maybe we could go around, and you could introduce yourself briefly. And maybe Daniel started with you. Could you say quickly what year you graduated, what brought you to UNT, and maybe what you do now?

• DANIEL: Yes. So, I graduated from UNT in 2005 with a Bachelor of Arts in international studies, and honestly, being an immigrant and the first one to graduate from college in my family, it was just sort of like convenience, that brought me to UNT, I attended a community college because of my low SAT scores you know, had only been in the country for three years when I took the SAT. So, I was able to transfer to UNT after two years.

  UNT had international studies, which is what I wanted to major in. It was also conveniently located close to Carrollton where I lived at the time. So, I commuted to save money. And that's how I ended up in the UNT.

  I went back to school eventually to get an alternative certification and become a teacher. I've been an elementary school teacher, bilingual teacher, also a middle school teacher, and I went back to UNT and got my master's in educational leadership.

  In 2014, I became an assistant principal at the middle school level. I also served at the high school level as an assistant principal before joining my current role as an education consultant with Region Ten Education Service Center.

• PAIGE: What an incredible background, and it's so interesting because today we'll be talking about some of the challenges that you face as a student, and I'm just so glad that you know you persevered and helped found this incredible organization to go on and give back to our kiddos and our communities and the profound ways that you've described. So, thank you for joining us, Daniel.

  DANIEL: Thank you so much for the invite.

  PAIGE: Edith, do you want to share a little bit about what your goals were and how you came to be at UNT?

• EDITH: Yeah. I am also from the area, and a lot of it was also out of convenience. I knew a lot of people from my graduating class who were also going to go to UNT, but one of the main motivators for me to choose UNT specifically was the admission into the Emerald Eagle Scholars program, which focuses on giving scholarships to students who are low income and or first-generation students. I was able to qualify for both and that gave me the money that I needed to go to UNT, it also allowed me to get the chance to know people who are in a similar situation.

  That kind of having a family or themselves being more underprivileged and a lot of the times communities of color. I started getting involved in that. From there, I started hearing about MUEVE too, and I got involved. I stayed involved because I liked the people that were there and in the leadership.

  Very lively, but also very interested and wanting to make sure that the community not only in UNT but in Denton was safe and that we all know our rights, whether we do direct action or just informing on social issues in general, and so that was something that I ended up enjoying.

  I ended up kind of getting involved, but the next year, the next semester, COVID hit, and so that ended up becoming a new challenge. I became president in 2021, entering the fall, and that was still when there were a lot of lockdown restrictions… so a lot of people weren't seeking to get involved on campus - virtually either - so it became a challenge.

  There were some days when it was just me and my roommate, just talking, hoping somebody would join the Zoom call, but you know we were able to continue and today it is in the trusting hands of Frida Garcia.

  I have a lot of faith that she will continue to spread the mission and talk about social issues regarding the campus and underprivileged communities. I think that's something that we continue to do.

• PAIGE: That is so amazing and congratulations on graduating, I know that you're just at the beginning of your career but know that there are so many exciting things to come, and what I loved about what you shared was how for both you, Daniel, and you Edith, the decision to choose a college and to go to UNT, a lot of it had to do with proximity.

  You had been going to school in Texas and wanting to stay here close to your community, affordability, which is something that virtually every young person or college student faces, and so those are universal challenges and it's refreshing to hear about how you were able to access despite not necessarily always having resources and the people who might help others sort of make it to this point.

  I love that connection because that's really what the focus of our podcast today on is what it's like to have this journey to higher Ed and, what challenges you face after getting in the door, what the community was like, and what your journey was like.

  Profe, maybe you could talk a little bit about your journey to UNT and help set us up to talk and have a broader conversation about this amazing organization or listen to hearing about – MUEVE.

• DR. NUNEZ: Yes, sure. Thank you both Edith and Daniel for introducing your journeys and MUEVE so well.

  I came to UNT in 2003, just graduated from grad school and I've been there ever since, this has been my only job.

  I am now in my 20th year so I'm a professor of anthropology and I'm also an affiliated faculty with the Latino Mexican American studies program and one of the handful of Latina professors who has achieved the rank of full professor.

  MUEVE has been a part of that. This organization is a space created by students for students and just like Edith and Daniel have pointed out, MUEVE has always adapted and responded to the challenges with corazón - with a lot of heart - and cultura. Centering culture, centering the lives of students and using that as a source to navigate attacks against immigrants to other kinds of attacks, those offered by the pandemic.

  MUEVE has always been there, it has been a privilege for me to be a part of it. I serve now as an advisor, but I was not the original adviser of MUEVE, Dr. Roberto Calderon or Beto Calderon, as he is known, was the first MUEVE advisor when Daniel and others started MUEVE. Then I was asked to become co-advisor with Dr. Calderon, and then he just recently retired. So, we were working in partnership, the two of us advising our amazing students.

  PAIGE: Thank you so much for sharing that background. I've enjoyed just the richness of the history of this beautiful community that you all are a part of and continue to grow and we came together - IDRA - had the opportunity to connect with Profe, MUEVE, and the Eagle Dreamer organization because of this unfortunate litigation that was filed.
  Working in collaboration to support students and help unpack what was going on. That litigation focuses on a law called the Texas Dream Act - in a very indirect way - and talking a lot about how we make sure as a state, higher education is affordable and accessible to all students, regardless of their background, their immigration status, their race, their ethnicity, their gender, all of that.

  We don't have enough time to go into the intricacies, there are a lot of resources on our website and probably will have subsequent podcasts about the case more broadly, but Profe, maybe you could just give us at a very high level. I know you were on campus at the time when a really important law SB 1528 was passed, which really focused on increasing opportunities for Texans to access in-state tuition.

  I wonder if you could very briefly talk about what that law was and what its initial implementation was like, because that's really important background, I think, to what Daniel will share around how MUEVE was founded.

• DR. NUNEZ: Yes, sure, Paige and you can correct me too because I might forget my dates. Also, I just want to remind everybody that I'm speaking here on my behalf and I'm not representing UNT and part of my research is on immigrant education.

  In addition to what was happening on campus and what happened with YCT in 2005, which Daniel will talk about, I was researching immigrant education, and I'm also an immigrant myself.

  At the time, I was a green card holder. And so, I was concerned personally, professionally and in terms of my scholarship on access to education for immigrants in particularly those who were undocumented.

  To be quite honest, as far as I know, nothing was happening on campus in terms of the infrastructure to support undocumented students, meaning a few LatinX faculties staff and professors had sort of been sharing stories about students who were having difficulty accessing education just like Daniel Anita have talked about, who were having also additional issues because of their status.

  In 2001, HB 1403, right? Became law, that provided Texas was the first state in the United States to grant in-state tuition to undocumented students. By 2005, that law was being negotiated and discussed again and was picked up again by the Texas legislator and then became SB 1528.

  Even though it had been 5 years between 2001 and 2005, nobody knew about HP1403. And even after 2005, all the way till today, I still hear students, counselors, and even recruitment and admissions staff on our campus and on other campuses who are unaware that undocumented students can access in-state tuition in Texas.

  I continue to work with youth in K through 12 locally, and I hear many parents and many teachers who are getting their students ready for graduation, asking, can they go to college if they don't have papers, right? And I have a presentation that I've been delivering for years of yes! you can go to college if you don't have papers. It's taken a lot of work and almost a lifetime of advocacy by students, faculty, staff, teachers, to raise awareness about the opportunity that eventually was provided by SB1528.

• PAIGE: Thank you so much for laying the foundation and showing us the landscape around this issue, I think the important thing to remember is that you know this law isn't happening in a vacuum, right? SB 1528 and its predecessor were laws designed to encourage Texans to stay in Texas.

  Students who had been going to high school here, whose families had roots here who were hard paying you know hardworking, paying taxpayers, contributing to our economy, funding, these institute public institutions like UNT, right? So, it was really an acknowledgment that our immigrant neighbors you know had every right to access the benefits that they had been paying into and their families had been contributing to and feeling just as welcome.

  I think remembering that is so important, and I think it gives a lot of context to what comes next, as you shared, Profe, there was school struggled to implement the law immediately and messaging and we continue to have to put out affirmative and supportive messaging to help students know their rights.

  Which is so interesting because shortly after the bill, SB1528 was passed. Another group of students, members of an organization called the Young Conservatives of Texas did their own form of action and awareness, and maybe Daniel, you could tell us a little bit about what that was and what that experience was like for you.

• DANIEL: Yeah, it was 2005, I believe, and I was not very involved at the time, or really not involved at all at the time, I was just sort of going through the motions of finishing school and I was working full time. I was I was going to school full time.

  So really, you know, involvement with anything related to school was nothing that I really had time for, I thought, but there was an event that was carried out by this organization, it was called catch an illegal immigrant.

  Basically the dynamic was that one of their members of the organization were wearing orange vests with the word illegal immigrant on the back, and, if you brought them back to the table that the organization had set up, they were given some candy in exchange for bringing the pretend illegal immigrant.

  There was a lot of uproar by the different established organizations and the national organizations that had chapters there at school, but we didn't think that enough was done, you know, all of all of the organizations have to go up the chain of command to see what could be done.

  It was frustrating to see that this organization - the Young Conservatives - had put such a demeaning event together. It is one thing to engage in a debate about immigration and immigration reform, but it is another one to demean human beings.

  I personally felt very insulted by the way they had approached this. I felt like there was a need for someone to really push back or to counter this nonsense. Otherwise, I felt like they would escalate this sort of activity. When we saw the lack of action by any of the established organizations that were on campus, a friend and I decided we needed to do something.

  We said, well, why don't we just create our own organization and where do we start? It was asking a lot of questions, and Dr. Calderon was very helpful and instrumental. We had to sit down and write a constitution or bylaws of the organization.

  We came up with a name just from scratch and at first it was just a couple of us, but eventually, as we got going and planned an event where we essentially planted 500 wooden crosses to represent, many of the people that have died trying to come to this nation, to this country, a lot of students joined organically and by the time that event took place, we had about 15 or 20 members.

  I thought it was very successful because I later found out that the members of the Young Conservatives were planning to attend the event. We had a visual at night, and they were planning on attending the event, but because they saw just the humanity of everything that was transpiring, they basically decided not to proceed with whatever they had planned because they saw that, immigration is not just a political topic, it involves human beings, and there are other ways where we can engage in dialog and how to address some of these issues, but that is not one of them where we demean people and where we just come up with this sort of events.

  That's how the organization evolved from nothing, it was a very grassroots approach and our goal was for the organization to simply continue in that manner and just for students to decide the future of the organization and that's the way it's been.

• PAIGE: I deeply appreciate you sharing that story and just that history that you have from your own experiences, and I'm sure those were passed on.

  I want to ask you about those, and I'll just name my own, even though I don't identify as an immigrant or as Latina, having been a student in higher education witnessing a catch an Illegal Immigrant Day planned at UT Affirmative Sction bake sale, which occurred when I was a student at UT.

  I personally connect with the frustration and the sense of inhumanity and just deeply appreciate that the response was not to be intimidated or to lose hope, but to create something new and powerful that has continued 20 years later. Congratulations and thank you and your cofounder for doing that.

  Before I come over to Edith to hear a little bit more about how they invited you, I know that you were on campus at the time and as a faculty member had the opportunity to support students who were impacted by this horrific incident.

  I wonder if you wanted to add anything about the climate that this catch and legal immigrant event created for all kinds of students, whether they were undocumented or otherwise.

• DR. NUNEZ: I felt it personally. I would have to admit that I never attended the catch an Illegal Immigrant Day. I had a class, and I was coming back to my office, and I had a student running after me saying, Profe, Profe, you got to see this! this is happening, right? And they started sharing the details and my heart just saying…I can't witness that.

  I picked up in the aftermath, which was the vigil, which was incredible. The amount of courage, dignity, and healing that that event had just been so incredibly important for students who had felt demoralized and dehumanized by the event.

  All that created a lot of strength and camaraderie among Latino students on campus which was felt for decades and even today. As far as I remember, students in my classes would talk about Catch an Illegal Immigrant Day until 5 years later.

  On one hand, there was knowledge, and the impacts were felt deeply, on the other hand, I think MUEVE was integral in creating that sense of healing and empowerment, especially among Latino students on campus, and a lot of coalition building too with other organizations that were not Latinos, and that was incredibly important.

  I think that the lack of response by the administration was revealing to students, understanding and seeing how the administration was incredibly hesitant to call out the event and completely dismissive of its racism, and the impacts that it had on students, faculty, and staff. This was public, anybody who was walking by, was there to witness an assault on people's lives. It was also revealing to understand that an institution that proclaimed to care for our students, would not call out the event, and would only act after being pushed very, very heavily by students, faculty, and staff. The action that the university took was to change some of the requirements for student organizations to host events on campus.

  After the YCT, there was a change. Students would have to file an event 48 hours ahead of time or something like that and get all sorts of permissions. That kind of infrastructure was set up at the time, but there was no condemnation. If anything, there was complete protection of so-called individual rights and freedom of speech, so that's how the university ended up protecting such a hateful and racist attack against our campus community - claiming that this was democracy at work because students were exercising their right to freedom of speech.

• PAIGE: I appreciate the big picture that you're painting because this was not just about SP 1528. This was not just about access to tuition equity, it was about creating a campus where all students felt safe valued, and welcomed, and where you all observed a vacuum of that in terms of what was existing in the infrastructure on campus supporting student-led leadership to fill that space, which we all know requires a lot of time and energy - emotional energy - but it sounds like it has been a worthwhile one.

• university, we knew that things would escalate and so we felt strongly that we needed to counter that, but not necessarily, utilizing the same strategies or the same methods that they used, but by humanizing the issue and engaging in dialog because we had some really good conversations with folks that would come up to us and very civil conversations, right? If they had an opinion on immigration you know, we had some good conversations, but that's what it's about.

  The danger is, I believe, and I think we've seen it recently when you allow a group of people to simply push the envelope, it ends up impacting people, and people get hurt.

  I think that's why we've seen a resurgence of those sorts of organizations and the things that they are willing to do because they can get away with it and they don't have a counterweight.

  At that time, I felt like we were able to push back and draw the line. And also, just involve other students who like me maybe didn't know they wanted to be involved and wanted to get involved in some way and a lot of them did and we had other organizations like Profe was saying that provided their support.

  I think after that it took a little bit of time before this organization - the Young Conservatives - put together something similar because they knew that they would not go unnoticed and that we would come back and respond. I think that whatever they did after that it was a lot more measured.

  Of course, eventually, it is my understanding that they were back at it at some point. But again, it's only if they feel like they can get away with certain things that they will do it, because of the political climate, unfortunately.

• PAIGE: And that's a great segway, Edith because maybe you can share a little bit about your experience being involved in MUEVE and continuing to be the counterbalance to some of the harmful actions and rhetoric.

  But before I do that, just really quickly, I realize we haven't done this. Daniel, maybe you could tell us very quickly or Edith if you'd like to start here, this might be a good place to start. What does MUEVE stand for? What does it mean for our listeners? Do you want to start that one? Go ahead, Daniel.

• DANIEL: I will, because Edith may not know this, but as we were sitting there seeing students trying to come up with a name, we were trying to come up with a name that would have an acronym that meant something, so originally, it was Movimiento Unido Estudiantil, and then we're like, well, we're missing something, and then it was the last thing was like, vida eterna, which is it would be something like united stood movement for life or something along those lines. But it just didn't make sense.

  We were like, you know what? Let's just call it MUEVE and just leave it at that. Just MUEVE, which, of course in Spanish means to move, that's why the logo that we came up with, the sun is there, which, for many of our indigenous folks, it's a very powerful symbol, but also, it's a new beginning, it's a new movement forward. That's why we just decided to keep it as MUEVE. But originally, we were just brainstorming names and just we ended up at that.

• PAIGE: I love that, and I really appreciate the connection to the indigenous roots and the imagery of the sun. I really love that, and that new beginning, which has been sustained.

  Edith, tell us a little bit about, I know that your ability to do direct actions was limited because we were in the middle of a global pandemic, but maybe you could talk a little bit about what drew you to MUEVE when you came to campus and what you have seen in both for your organization, but also what have you been working to balance against over the last several years?

• EDITH: Yeah. So again, I kind of got involved whenever I was also around underprivileged minorities who I got to hear around. I think it was also just enabling event that I heard about MUEVE. Honestly, we have also talked about the YCT case and everything like the YCT event in 2005 like the capture an illegal immigrant day, and I have brought it up to perspective members and each time you know they are surprised that something dehumanizing could happen on campus and just so violent to our community.

  I have mentioned that. And again, there's been a resurgence with them, within these past few years, and as Profe was talking about, we had to push the administration a lot for them to do stuff, to really respond in any way or just address the issue and come up with a plan on how if at all, to limit their hatefulness and their actions, but, right now, what we have done, again, my freshman year of the spring semester was when COVID hit.

  That presented its own challenges. Afterwards, I don't think we really had any meetings that first year. The rest of the semester because it was almost towards the end of the semester anyways. The next person was trying to take on things.

  I would be the only one or only one of two on the Zoom calls. From there, having done some of my own presentations and stuff when we were still in person, he had approached me being saying, hey, you know, you're one of the only ones that are actively doing stuff, or at least attending meetings and so that's when I was approached to continue on as president. We were still in lockdown. So that was its own struggle, but you know YCT never stopped. And it seems like they won't, we must fight back really, hard.

  And that's also something that's been inspiring. Not only just with MUEVE, but a lot of the UNT campus. YCT has held some more hateful events, or discussions, quote unquote, on campus. And so there has been a lot of protests by other students. And so that's admirable.

• PAIGE: Can you give us an example all of what that looked like for you?

  EDITH: Yeah, one of the things was there was a Texas candidate that had a trans daughter who he refused to acknowledge as his daughter. He was saying a bunch of anti-trans stuff and I believe a lot of the rhetoric was, he was trying to either sue his ex-wife or a gain custody of the daughter because that, quote unquote perversion, I guess, is kind of what he would likely say, and so the YCT organization hosted a talk with him and invited him as a speaker.

  That was one of the events that really brought on a lot of the Denton and UNT community. We saw a lot of heavy protest that night, and that was one of the only times that UNT admin responded because it was such a big turnout, so they couldn't ignore it.

  There are some other issues, especially within racial minorities that it takes a lot more organizing, and it's more difficult to push information and figure out a game plan to combat YCT specifically, because they're usually the instigators on campus. So, it becomes a little bit more challenging when it comes to racial minorities, and I think that's been the hardest part for me whenever I was serving - trying to get more people involved - because a lot of what we do is race based, and it's not limited to just racial minorities.

  We advocate for all marginalized communities, but because we are primarily Latino organization, that is something that is on our minds. We would do some action talking to communities of color, and one of the things that we did when we were in person was - and that's where I first met Profe - she filled me in on this because I can remember some of the details, but the community that basically they were losing access to their water, and they were primarily immigrant families. They had a little bit more trouble, I guess, figuring out what to do, and what their rights were to maintain that they had a space to live in. Profe, do you know what I'm talking about?

• DR. NUNEZ: It's the green tree community in Denton. So this was a trailer park community that had lost access to water right before the pandemic hit, and so it took a coalition of primarily LatinX community and various organizations, including students on campus, to sort of support them from basic response of get them some water while they needed to then pushing the city of Denton to grant them access, so some of that happened then right as the pandemic hit.

• PAIGE: This is incredible because just a couple of the gems that I pulled out of what you shared, it was a space where you felt supported, accepted and where you felt you could grow and how important that was to you personally, even though you had this incredible challenge of a global pandemic, which nothing else needs to be said about that.

  You touched on sort of the intersectionality and the solidarity that the organization and, Daniel this connects back to what you said: It was about bringing people in, regardless of your identity and humanizing the issue and getting people to understand the lived experiences of those who are directly impacted, and so, doing that not only for the community that you formed and the issues that you were formed to advocate on, but also for others in those you know historically marginalized positions. So, I just deeply appreciate that because that's how we win, right? That's how we move forward in making sure all students feel welcome and supported.

  And then, this last piece around not just being involved in your school community, but now I'm hearing you're out in the Denton community, helping others who are impacted and need support and being a part of those coalitions. What an incredible opportunity for leadership and community service. Thank you so much for sharing that.

• DR. NUNEZ: Yeah. I was going to say Paige too that, MUEVE has always been like that, and I think, even though MUEVE is rooted in the indigenous Chicano LatinX values that are about decolonizing, which is not culturally relevant just for Latinos. That's culturally relevant, if you will, for everyone.

  I'm thinking here of Angela Valenzuela's authentic caring. That's what MUEVE has always been about.

  It's about authentically care. And that's what draws all kinds of students. I've seen that permutation in MUEVE over the years, and in 2006, when immigrants were attacked, in particularly DACA, was threatened by then elected President Trump. It was MUEVE along with other students on campus that began organizing to demand that our campus become a sanctuary, and that meant sanctuary, not just for immigrants, but for also transgender students who were likely going to be attacked. Part of that involved, organizing protests and walkouts that involve the entire Denton community, but you know the mission of caring for people as people and caring for community and working collectively has always been a part of MUEVE, and I think it expands beyond the boundaries of what we know as Latino culture.

  MUEVE used to organize as well an event called Colonizados pero sobreviviendo - colonized but surviving - which was a space for all students on campus, it was a very private space for students to authentically relate to their sense of self and each other, and to do that with compassion and really love for who they were and to build that.

  Whatever sort of more public outside actions were happening, were taking place in part because that caring and authenticity, and really love for each other was also being built within the community. And that was all done by students for students.

  PAIGE: Did you want to chip in there?

• DANIEL: I agree with everything that's been shared so far, and I think that was you know one of the things that we really wanted to not have the obstacles of other organizations when it comes to really acting and not having to run it up a 120 other people. We wanted it to be grassroots, and it has always been that way.

  That was one of the advantages of having this organization that we would not necessarily need to wait around for others to act on our behalf or tell us how to act because our students, I think, historically, have been the catalyst of very large and meaningful or impactful movements around the world, and so, we were a very small group, probably still a small group in terms of when I say we, you know, students who identify Latino or LatinX or Hispanic.

  We share some commonalities, but because of the lack of access, as you mentioned earlier, but I think that it is important for students to continue to remain engaged and to be organized to bring the change that we would like to see, especially now in this and under this political climate. Also, as an immigrant, I don't think I've ever felt the way I felt in these last few years.

  To the point that I decided to go back home. When you don't feel welcome. Of course, there will be many who will stay behind and fight, but I've made that decision to go back home to Michoacan, Mexico, and a big part is because of the political climate and everything that's been allowed to transpire in the last few years. These things do have an impact on the lives of people.

• PAIGE: And it breaks my heart to hear that not only because of you as a person as a human, I want you to feel welcome and feel empowered, but I'm thinking about the broader teacher shortage and the crisis we have in public education and the amazing lessons and gifts that you can get to our kiddos, and yet another educator leaving for a variety of reasons that are totally within our control to deal with, and so I'm sorry to hear that and grateful for all that you've done and shared to this point.

• DANIEL: And you know unfortunately, I can only imagine what some of my brothers and sisters are going through, especially those who are here, who are undocumented. In the last few months, weeks, not just years, I've witnessed - or I - experienced some racist incidents, and they just seem to be escalating. I could sit here and share many of those but, we will be here for more time that it's a lot of for the podcast. We need to be organized more than ever.

• PAIGE: Absolutely, a theme has run through is just has been the importance of organizing being this counterbalance, counterweight to harmful narratives instead of fighting back, fighting back in a way that humanizes, shares stories and brings people in instead of pushing people out.

  That work is so powerful, but it's also we know that higher education is a microcosm of our society and the opportunities and the experiences that we all collectively have access to. And so, I wonder sort of in this final round, I'd love each of you to share you know if you have the mic… you have the opportunity to talk directly to policymakers and it could be your university leaders. It could be state policy makers at the Texas Capitol, it could be federal, congress people, the president, what message do you want them to have about the ability of students with backgrounds like yours to access higher education and to feel welcome in our colleges?

• DANIEL: If I could go first, education has changed my life. It really has. My mom has a first grade education, my dad has a 6th grade education. I am now finishing a doctorate, but, I worked full time through college and went to school full time.

  I considered not going to school because of the cost and because, it just didn't seem feasible. There were many other reasons, but the cost was also an obstacle and irrespective of where you stand on the political spectrum, any nation will benefit by having an educated population and our tax base would drain, if we don't have an educated population.

  It is extremely important that we continue to try to make education a lot more affordable and more accessible. And, I don't think that it is up to us to solve the immigration issues or address those issues, things can be done, and things will need to happen to reform our immigration system because at the end of the day, it is broken, but, there are, there are many ways that that could take place.

  In the meantime, you do have people here who are paying taxes who are, being productive members of society. If we're not going to address the system as a whole, we definitely need to consider how to best provide access for this individual so that they can become even more productive citizens in this nation.

  We are a nation of immigrants and irrespective of our phenotypical characteristics so, that's the only thing that I would want to just end with.

• PAIGE: Thank you. I understand if you must go, so that’s ok.

  Edith, what would you like to share with leaders in your community, whether it's at the school, the State House, or The White House?

• EDITH: I think a lot of it is, there's a lot of dehumanization at the end of the day. Every single human deserves to live with dignity, respect and the remembrance and actualization of us all being human, and the only difference is opportunity and privilege.

  A lot of the times, there's just this issue of us versus them, especially in politics. I think a lot of the time, legislators or any sort of administration forgets the fact that each one of us is in fact our own person, and that we need respect, dignity and deserve an actual life that is worth living.

  It's all about respect and compassion, and not forgetting that, we are all humans and people, and the only difference is that opportunity that the various opportunities and privileges we have sometimes we're all born into different circumstances.

  Especially when you grow up with a lot of privilege and are now removed from the personal sphere, when you get into politics and more administrative stuff where you're looking over a general group, you forget that they are people, not just “a group”. I think that's one of the biggest things is, just to remember humanity and human rights of the right to live with dignity.

  I think that's just an important reminder, and once it gets through schools, I think that'll make a huge difference. Remembering that.

• PAIGE: Absolutely. I appreciate how you're balancing out sort of really common sense as a society. We need well educated people and people who can contribute to our tax base. That's what Daniel is sharing and you're bringing this other critical dimension around just basic dignity and humanity, which is a perfect balance.

  And Profe I'll leave up to you for the last word. What would you like to say to policymakers or leaders around making sure that all students will welcome and our colleges?

• DR. NUNEZ: Well, I'll pick up where Edith left off with first to share a message to our administration, which is to treat our students with dignity. It means that we need to authentically listen to them, not just hear them.

  Our students, in this case, have been warning us about YCT for a very long time, and the administration has sort of just turned away from the issue. It's very important. Our students may not know all the details or the processes, administratively, may not necessarily even be aware of all the politics sometimes, but they know when something impacts their lives. I think it's important to take them seriously.

  And then to our policymakers, locally, and nationally, help me do my job.I think with what this case suggests and others in the state of Texas, recent laws related to educational opportunity and curriculum. They're about taking opportunities away. And so, my job, as an educator, not just as a professor or as a scholar, but as an educator, is to make sure that my students have opportunities.

  My goal is to make sure that they graduate, and that they make lives that are fulfilling economically, intellectually, personally. Taking away in-state tuition takes that opportunity. Not providing opportunities beyond graduation for those who are immigrant, also makes my job harder.

  It literally breaks my heart for me to sit down with a high school student and a college student who is at the risk of losing DACA or who has absolutely no recourse to access lawfully, our immigration system, to encourage them and to say, keep going, but you can’t really have a job after. Or keep going, get those great grades, but you can’t pay in state tuition when you when you go to college.

  My message is just help me do my job. Education shouldn't have to hurt. It shouldn't have to hurt undocumented students, students of color or transgender students.

• EDITH: And I would also like to say that MUEVE is not only on the UNT campus, but we're just one piece of the incredible work that UNT students and organizations do, even though we couldn't have a representative for Eagle Dreamers today, they are also very important to what UNT does for our undocumented students, but really just all marginalized and primarily Latino students.

  I think they are important to what we can do as well and contacting and discussing with the administration on what we need to do. I would just like to give them a special shout out. Thank you all for being here and inviting me to speak on this.

• PAIGE: Thank you. And thank you for giving the shout out to Eagle Dreamers and it's really incredible, I know it's frustrating that students and faculty have to do all this work again to bring awareness and create those supports, but we're so glad that you do.

  Thank you for the job that you do supporting the students, for your great research. Edith and Danielle, thank you for all that you've contributed to and this incredible legacy of MUEVE and for being that counterweight, that counterbalance to harmful rhetoric and instead humanizing and uplifting the stories and lived experiences of all students, including those who are LatinX, immigrant or undocumented, these stories are so important.

  And we'll be back to give an update on the YCT versus UNT litigation and how we're all going to collectively continue to work to make sure all students have access to higher education and all the opportunities that come with it.

  Thank you all for everything you're doing on campus and looking forward to continuing our close collaboration and uplifting student voices and those who are directly impacted.

  I encourage our listeners to reach out to MUEVE, Profe if you are interested in supporting the really great work of MUEVE. Thank you all so much!